Mark Harvey has been sacked as Freo’s coach. Early rumours were that Ross Lyon might get the gig. Slightly less early rumours now suggest that Rocket Eade is in the frame.
STOP PRESS!! Even less early news is that it IS Ross Lyon who will be announced as the new Freo coach.
Gerard Whately tweeted this: “Few moments are genuinely staggering anymore. Fremantle sacking Mark Harvey is one of those moments. #handgrenade ”
What do other Almanackers think of this bolt from the blue? (Or should that be bolt from the purple?)
About Andrew Gigacz
Well, here we are. The Bulldogs have won a flag. What do I do now?
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I think this is a sad day for lovers of the bizarre post-match press conference comment.
Given that Lyon just reconfirmed next year at the Saints, either this is very sudden, or it ain’t him.
Eade would be a chance.
Meanwhile, no news from Melbourne. Any comment on that Eddie?
I was holding this rumour back for this week’s Giga Bites but I think it needs to be announced now:
• Having emphatically denied that he will coach in 2012, Mick Malthouse is set to use his “gap year” to set up a rural highway service station, the architecture of which will have a German pre Art Deco feel. It will be known as the Malthouse Bauhaus Roadhouse.
Is it possible that Harvey had been speaking to Melbourne ?
Or is it possible that the Dockers have someone else lined up?
Someone else who has just agreed to take on the job.
The other laughable aspect in all of this is that, in the same breath,
football clubs accuse players of having a lack of loyalty.
Gigs,
That place sounds sh#thouse !
Looks like it IS Lyon who’s got the job:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/ross-lyon-to-coach-fremantle-20110915-1kbmh.html
Ruthless caper.
Nettlefold was squirming on Monday night on Footy Classified. I reckon he knew then.
R Lyon (Lying) is a cherry picker.
Will Freo now kick enough goals to win big games?
On the flipside, the Saints might be able to now.
QUOTE: “I’d be LYON if I said I didn’t take the Freo job for the money.”
(Sorry Flynny, typed that then saw your “lying” comment.)
Lads
if it is the position that Harvey and R Lyon have the same management company then, assuming it knew of Lyon’s plans, this it one of the more jaw-dropping conflicts of interest I have seen.
CD
Wow! I didn’t realise that Craig. That’s pretty amazing.
Coaches of all last year’s preliminary finalists gone within 12 months!
SEN just confirmed that both Lyon and Harvey are managed by
Elite Sports Properties. And that Lyon’s representatives were having
discussions with Fremantle as long as 5 weeks ago.
Elite Sports Properties
There’s a name that speaks volumes.
Statement from St Kilda:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5315/newsid/123531/default.aspx
Forwardpocket, that is also an amazing stat.
A lot of blind-siding wrapped up in one brief burst. And no one was the wiser until it happened. Wow! So now who coaches the Saints?
ESP and R Lyon no longer have an association.
Glenn, that leads into another question:
If one had a choice of clubs, which club would one choose?
Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda.
Flynny,
Aparently ESP sacked R Lyon today because he was negotiating without
their knowledge !!! Amazing stuff !!!
G’day Smoke,
I usually don’t have much interest in this sort of caper. I prefer trying to guess what Stevie J is going to attempt next.
I must admit this one’s got me in.
7.5 mill over 5 years.
Mick Malthouse is still in play at Melbourne.
Ross Lyon’s management had NO IDEA he was doing the deal! This can’t be good for the reputation of a company with the name “ESP”.
Confusing issue is why Lyon appeared to reaffirm with the Saints this week. Was he still mulling things over? Or was that misreported?
What is obvious, whatever you make of it, is who Lyon rates as a better chance to win a flag in the near future. And that someone who mattered at Freo didn’t rate Harvey.
Tony, I reckon you may be right. Why else did Eddie get so upset when Bailey was sacked?
The footy ‘circus’ is alive and well! Go cats!
The funny thing about all this is that I now find myself supporting the stable, honest dealing club in the league.
No knifed coach. Contracts honoured. No back room dealing. No factions.
Carlton. The club of integrity. Who’d a thunk it.
Flynny,
How do you normally go trying to guess Stevie J’s next move?
Chris Scott made it quite clear that, as his coach, even he has no idea !
I am with you. I am not really one for the coach roundabout either, but
you just get the feeling that this whole affair is a watershed moment.
New marketing slogan for next year.
Carlton. You can trust us.
Mmmm
Very good, JB.
These would have been nervous times for B Ratten had the Blues lost last week.
I’m not bad at it Smoke.
I know when he’s going to kick around the body and I know when he’s going to take on the man on the mark.
I was baffled in the 4th quarter of last week’s game.
Is R Lyon going to the Saints B&F?
Flynny, you weren’t the only one.
You’d be hoping he got it out of his system.
“Carlton You Can Trust Us” – good for 3 more days.
Maybe PB.
But we’ll actually have a back line this time.
Will the umps allow the Selwoods to street-mug Judd again?
Harvey sacked at Freo. Lyon leaves St Kilda for Freo. Harvey acting coach at St Kilda. O.K. It is Harvey R. rather than Harvey M. but it still looks like a merry-go-round to me.
AFL clubs: leading the community.
Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.
Mendacity. Mendacity. Mendaaaaacity.
Well that’s the end of football south of the Swan. Sorry Neil B, Les E, Sean Gorman et al The spirit of Freo – in all its manifestations over a hundred years – is about to be tested, for many reasons.
You can’t have this as your foundation story.
And then, how does Ross Lyon’s coaching philosophy fit in to the Freo history and culture?
This is a classic.
Ian Latham will have a field day with this.
Who manages Mick Malthouse? Please let it be ESP. Please. PLease.
Credit where it’s due. Thanks to Ross Lyon and Freo, nobody’s taking about Collingwood.
Ross who??????
Annus horribilus is either over or continuing…depending on how you feel about “He who will no longer be named” but how must the boys be feeling, unless, they’re end of year trips are to GWS (please give Thailand a miss and no cameras please at any venue) . Can we bring on the cricket sooner. Thank goodness my cousin is teaching me Rugby League and we’re watching the Storm next week. Plus we have had Sam Stosur as our happiness pill.
And I thought the year couldn’t get worse for the Saints……..
Yvette
Forwardpocket,
Nice observation. You can go further.
Last year’s beaten semi-finalists (Freo and Syd) and the four preliminary finalists will all have changed coaches in 12 months.
While a Perth person, I have no particular love for Freo. That said, I thought Harvey had done a good job and was clearly the best coach in their history. Last year very good and this year the injuries were fractures and knees – not the preventable soft tissue stuff. My only doubt was that the younger/middle rank players didn’t seem to come on this year. But in the context of the injuries I gave Freo and Harvey the benefit of the doubt.
Freo’s list is older stars with a couple of years left at best (Pavlich, McPharline, Sandilands, McPhee, Grover etc). The jury is out on whether the younger players will be any good (Mayne, Ballantyne, ZClarke etc) – maybe, maybe not. But Fyfe is the only one that I’d put money on. Apart from Mundy the bridging middle group looks pretty thin. By the time the younger group can prove themselves the older stars will be????
So why would RLyon come? He seems a clinical mercenary bloke, with a good defensive coaching CV. The defensive structure will help, but it will take more than a year to learn and by then the older players will be knackered.
Smacks to me of a club panicking in their search for success. A drowning man will hang on to anything.
When I consider the available club talent I rank them – Melbourne, Adelaide, Dockers, Dogs, Saints. Just because the latter ones have further to fall because they can come up again.
My assumption is that the Desperate Dockers board offered a shitload more on a longer term contract than the Demons, and RL has taken the best monetary offer rather than the best football potential on offer.
The only question I have at the back of my mind in defence of the Dockers board is that Harvey seems a very intense character and he has a history. His highs are high and his lows seem low. If he was staying on top of things personally under the stress of a difficult season, then I can see no reason for his sacking.
Vale Dockers.
On more important issues – the millionaires versus the multi-millionaires is starting to worry me. Shades of American professional sport. Very worrying.
I can make no sense of the numbers and the claim/counter claim. In public policy I always relied on a Ross Gittins/Max Walsh/George Megalolenis to pull apart the numbers and give me a sense of the real issues. I heard the questions at the end of the Andy D press conference and it gave me no confidence that anyone in the footy media can count past 10 without taking their shoes and sox off. All personality drama rubbish.
Is there an Almanacker who can give us a real sense of where all the AFL money goes with all their huge revenue and the equally huge claims of players, expansion, grassroots, facilities etc. Someone please give me an understandable objective Executive Summary. Otherwise I will end up siding with Andy D just because his spin sounded plausible. Lord save me from that.
Regarding R Lyon: whatever happened to the coaching brotherhood?
Thinking nothing of taking a comrade’s job when said comrade is
still contracted for a year.
Anyway there was this mob of blokes
driving down Freo Mall
in the front seat of the hot FJ
with chrome plated grease nipples
and twin overhead foxtails,
and the coolest of them all,
who got to sit near the window,
was young Ross.
And they pulled up outside
the Parthenon milk bar
and standing outside
the Parthenon was this beautiful looking footy team.
Oooh! Oooh! said young Ross
who’d come top of his class in English,
Ooooh! he said.
So he leaned out of the window,
and he said real, real suave like,
he said G’day.
This nine foot tall Hell’s Angel called Mark
came out of the Parthenon milk bar,
looked at Ross and said
Arr, what are ya?
Ross said What are you?
Mark on the footpath said
D’ya want a go, do ya mate, eh?
Ross said Yeah, d’you want a go, mate?
Mark on the footpath said
Yeah I’ll have a go
Ross said
D’you know who you’re picking?
The bloke on the footpath said
Nah, who am I picking?
Ross said
You find out
And all of a sudden there was a break in the traffic,
and as any young Fremantle lad knows-
when you’re getting monstered
by a nine foot tall ex Coach
and there’s a break in the traffic….
Chorus
Don’t you ever let a chance go by, oh Lord
Don’t you ever let a chance go by
(Apologies to Bob Hudson)
PB Did you get my email re this weekend? JTH
My question is the next time Lyon’s name comes up for an opening, how can anyone believe anything he says, including his players? Granted this happens all the time, but honor and trust are crucial in building a cohesive team, IMO. What just happened happens all the time in the USA (not that we approve of it, either) — and one just wonders if Lyon’s mind was totally on the Saints in the past few weeks, or if he already had one foot out the door. Disappointing — but the Saints will recover. Sometimes a change of coach does a world of good.
It’s 6:48am in Melbourne and the sun HAS come up.
Lyon leaving is the best thing that’s happened to the Saints in years. They might actually enjoy their footy again.
This circus makes the big Bomber Thompson departure from Geelong look like tea party.
The other great part about Ross Lyon leaving is that we won’t hear that ridiculous “Saints Footy” comment anymore.
Welcome to “Wharfies Footy”
We certainly can trust the Blues JB, but the problem appears to be we know what for.
Now now Phantom.
You’ll get me mentioning the dodgy dealings that brought Polly and Dennis Marshall from the West if you’re not careful. :)
Anyone say Coulter Law?
There is enough expertise within the Knacker family to put a Committee and footy department together.
In the brave new world of non loyalty we could all take a sabatical from our own clubs and put a bid in for the Saints or the Dees, or the Dogs, or the Crows, or the Dockers: to be continued.
They were not the Peake either.
Cats were ahead of their time there.
Just forgot to paint the chopper pink.
New song for the Dockers.
‘Go West’ Village People
I THINK MALCOM BIGHT WILL BE A GOOD COACH AT SAINT KILDER
The EAGLES knew a long time ago that this would happen at Freo:
“On the other side of town a boy is waiting
with fiery eyes and dreams no one could steal
Ross drives on through the night anticipating
‘Cause Freo makes him feel the way he used to feel
He rushes to her arms,
They fall together
He whispers that it’s only for awhile
He swears that soon he’ll be comin’ back forever
He pulls away and leaves her with a smile
You can’t hide your Lyon eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise
I thought by now you’d realize
There ain’t no way to hide your Lyon eyes
Freo wonders how it ever got this crazy
She thinks about a coach she knew in school
Did she get tired or did she just get lazy?
She’s so far gone she feels just like a fool
My, oh my, you sure know how to arrange things
You set it up so well, so carefully
Ain’t it funny how your new life didn’t change things
You’re still the same old girl you used to be
You can’t hide your Lyon eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise
I thought by now you’d realize
There ain’t no way to hide your Lyon eyes
Honey, you can’t hide your Lyon eyes”
You certainly are out of that cross continental torpor nice and early today PB.
Keep on an even keel today and tomorrow.
You wouldn’t want a case of the blues on Sunday.
This is more fun than trade week.
I’m so disgusted by Ross Lyon’s disloyalty I’m gonna change teams and barrack for St Kilda.
In my employment, on occasion I have to terminate the employment of an employee. Under the National Employment Standards, and under the awards under which I operate, I will have to give a certain period of notice depending on the length of service of the employee. Depending on the circumstance, it may be that the option is taken to make payment in lieu of notice and have the employee finish earlier than the notice period (eg immediately).
If an employee resigns, they are subject to the same rules of giving notice depending on length of service. If the employee wishes to leave earlier than the notice period, then we can agree to part ways and payment is made for the employment up to the date of departure.
If the resigning employee wants to leave earlier than the required notice period, and we want the notice period to be served, if the employee leaves anyway, we are entitled to claim from the employee the amount of money for the notice period not served. However, getting that money is another matter. Under separate law, we cannot make a deduction from an employee’s (or ex employee’s) payment without a signed authority to deduct from the employee. Their incentive to sign such an authority is very limited so it would require legal intervention to claim any moneys owed. The cost and effort of such a claim would usually outweigh the benefit. So we usually just accept the outcome, and carry on.
Mark Harvey had a year to run on his contract. Fremantle will have to pay out that year and will do so or face legal consequences. Let me state: I am not a lawyer and I am open to correction. Ross Lyon had a year to run on his contract. I believe St Kilda would have a claim on the money owed for the time not served. A year on a coach’s salary is not a trifling amount and it may be worthwhile to actually pursue that claim. If such a claim was successful, in his first year at Fremantle, Ross Lyon would be working only for the marginal monetary difference between his St Kilda and his Fremantle annual salary.
Last year Essendon set the template for this most recent saga of duplicity, backstabbing and projected ends justifying present means.
And once again, the AFL sits on its hands throughout it all.
AF,
the under agreement / contract bit will create some sort of a challenge to Mick but the stars are lining up well for him. I reckon he will coach (driver’s seat) next year.
Footscray, Melbourne, St Kilda. What are the odds on Mick taking one of them to a flag in the next five years.
(Steady Eddy!)
AF – yes but imagine the tax he’d save!!!
One of the few rays of sunshine has gone from St.Kilda, I’m depressed! Say what you like about his (Lyon’s) style but the facts stack up pretty well re win/loss and Finals appearances, and remember that we beat every team at least once under his guidance (this is an unusual occurrence for StKilda). From the inside looking in (sort of) – he rolled the dice whilst there,recruiting mature aged players in a bid to win a GF in the short term. It didn’t quite work. We now have an ageing list, no kids of any note, no coach, 12 uncontracted players and a likely slide down the ladder. Thankfully I have the distraction of QPR in the Premier League to get me through this, who incidentally have now had the same coach for more than 6 months; a club record in recent times. Are there any more Scott brothers (or sisters) that we don’t know about? Maybe we could snag one to Moorabbin! What’s Ric Charlesworth or Joyce Brown up to these days?
Who said “There are two types of coaches: 1) those who have been sacked, and 2) those yet to be sacked.”
Can we add a third category?
Lethal pulls the pin when he lost the fire in the belly. Bomber ejects when burnt out. Roosey makes an orderly departure while still popular. Craigster falls on his own sword. Mick, err sorry, Eddy orangises a deal that Kofi Anan would be proud of.
We now have coaches waking up to their senses (except Mick) and saving a bit of honour.
This is not the same cruel, ruthless, heartless, mean-spirited sport that I once knew!
ps. Me thinks there is more to come. I don’t think the Dogs, Crows and Dees are really sitting on their hands…
Daz,
Robert Scott
Scott Cummings
Bart Cummings?
Medium Dazza,
very unlucky against Newcastle.
Wolves (away), Aston Villa (home) and Fulham (next door) will give us a good indication of where we are.
I am glad the new regieme has allowed Warnock to spend a bit.
Up the R’s
To be honest, if Freo wanted a change and the identified Lyon as the man, I don’t know how else they (or Ross Lyon) could’ve played it.
Whether we like it or not, the AFL is a business, and I’m sure there’s plenty who read the Almanac that have gone behind their employer’s back to seek a new gig.
Sure it was a shock, and some of the media on it has been bordering on hilarious – none better than Michael Roberts’ analogy of a cancerous tsunami.
Sorry, I crawled under the table before the Friday-night game against Collingwood and have been here ever since. It’s nice. Has something happened?
As a Fremantle member since its entry into the AFL I and many other people are totally shocked. This was a brutal sacking. Straight from left field. Halfway through a planning meeting talking about next year with his executioners he was then told he was sacked .Sure the year fell away but the injury list grew each week and we were still a chance to get in with 3 weeks to go.
I have followed football closely for 50years and can’t recall a more brutal one since Norm Smith than this.
The Fremantle board and executives and Lyon have just put their collective heads in the noose if this doesn’t work
I reckon loyalty is over-rated. Too often it’s a cloak for someone being too conservative to make a change.
In this case, I see a Julia Gillard analogy. Gillard apparently lacks authority within the electorate because punters find it hard to accept just how she got to power.
AFL fans might shun Freo and Lyon because of how he came to power (and because the Dockers wlll be reduced to an excruciating game plan).
Andrew, the way it works in the States is that coaches who get fired with time left on their contracts are entitled to be paid for the rest of the term. Coaches who leave early in the pros usually pay no penalty; it’s considered the cost of doing business. In the colleges, however, coaches usually have “buyout clauses” in their contracts — if they leave early, they must pay the school some amount of money, usually a sizable chunk of a year’s salary (but often the hiring school pays it for him or her).
I’m assuming Freo must pay Mark Harvey a year’s salary. But Lyon had a clause in his contract allowing him to leave St. Kilda before the final year providing he gave three months’ notice. He’s effectively done this, and if I read it correctly, the Saints waived the three months to let him go. So they have no further claim.
hang on a minute – something’s been lost here.
can I point out that some-one has left a secure position to go to Freo!
wow – they must be certifiable!
Just thought I’d use this thread to deliver a People’s Elbow to Michael Roberts.
“I had the same reaction when Princess Diana died. I was in the newsroom when the bureau called to say the princess had been killed in a car accident and I just couldn’t believe it.”
F___ me, a little bit of perspective wouldn’t go astray. He’ll be on about grassy f______ knolls next!
Say nothing of the fact that not a single soul in that newsroom on the day Princess Diana died would’ve turned to Michael Roberts and send “I reckon you’re on this one mate.”
Once again, f___ me!
I heard he was talking about it “creeping up him (Harvs) like Cancer!”
Can anyone confirm that?
Yeah – that came right after being ‘crept upon by a tsunami’.
As our Prime Minister would say, he’s one prone to a little bit of hyper bowl.
Litza – I’m with you. This is much bigger news than when Diana died.
In a move befitting one R. Lyon, I’m hijacking this thread in a totally self-serving manner… for my thoughts on the St Kilda scandal, take a read of this – http://www.makingthenut.com/content/ross-lyin (it’s a bit too long to post holus-bolus)
well placed elbow. Was it Michael Roberts or was it John Michael Howson?
I believe Fremantle have made a good decision to sack Mark Harvey and appoint Ross Lyon as coach. I believe the reason for the Fremantle Board decision is that Ross Lyon is a successful and effective defensive coach and is more likely to bring success in the short term, especially as their better players such as Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin, Grover and Mundy are all close to 30. The reaction of some supporters and the media is pathetic. Supporters react in an emotional and irrational manner, but generally get over it very quickly. The media love the circus of these type of situations and cover them as a trivial soap opera.
This is probably the best decision in the history of the Fremantle Footy Club. This club has made some very poor decisions such as trading Peter Bell and appointing dud coaches such as Damian Drum and Chris Connolly.
Mark Doyle: “The reaction of some supporters … is pathetic”.
If by “pathetic” you mean “passionate” then you are spot on, Mark. I love “pathetic” supporters. They drive this great site. And I’m very proud to be one of them.
Might be inclined towards Gig’s point Mark.
It was only a few years ago we Cats were perhaps a little pathetic, I mean passionate.
You may well be right regarding the need of the Freo hatchets to make a quick kill. It is possibly the rite of passage that the club needs. Time will tell.
I don’t really care. Charity starts at home and I am looking towards the old Cats who are at home by the fire this weekend.
Call me pathetic/passionate (whichever tickles your fancy) but I’m disgusted with the way Lyon has conducted himself in this deal.
Yes, it was probably time for him to leave St Kilda.
Yes, the move to Fremantle might yet be a masterstroke for both him and the club.
However, the honourable thing to do would have been to tell the Saints earlier in the week, “Look, this is what’s going on…” instead of leading them on, continuing negotiations and (by today’s reports) all but signing the new contract before saying, “Well, so long and thanks for all the fish” (Douglas Adams’ reference, for those wondering).
I understand that footy is all about “business”, “success” and the bottom line these days. However, those who conduct themselves with honour in their BUSINESS DEALINGS will always be more respected than those who lack integrity and transparency. The reputations of Lyon and Fremantle will be rightly dinted in the eyes of many fans out there.
Hopefully St Kilda and Mark Harvey can move on and make the most of their fresh starts.
Mark Doyle, that was a very Mark Doyle response. I was just wondering if your comments are also printed in the Australian Rationalist Journal each month?
And if S.Giese can take the Saints into her heart then I know for sure that some really bad shit has gone down here! #confirmation
Don’t get too stressed guys. Everything is sorted out at Catville and we copped a double whammy last year if I remember back to the dark old days.
It is just part of Andy Pandyrios’s grand plan.
He is as happy as a plate seller at a Greek wedding. The rugby world cup is off the headlines so all is fine.
He is such a good operator maybe he could be promoted to sorting out another potential GFC crisis in the Euro Zone.
There are a few who want the league expanded so maybe he could use his model to help the new guys out.
Silvio Berlusconi and Dominique Strauss could be lured to new teams for good packages and Angela Merkyl could resign as head coach of Germany (before the conservatives do a harvey on her) and head off to Palistine as a Sheedy type coach.
The biggest advantage to AFL about young Pandyrios being over there would be that he was over there.
Gadaffi could have a bit of a time out in one of the minor leagues for previous sins but could get picked up in the draft or as a mature aged rookie. He knows a fair bit about playing the game.
Just a thought to take the seriousness out of the whole business.
Have a nice weekend.
Susie – very much the voice of reason here. I have an issue with Ross “the honourable one” walking out on a contract and Freo for sacking Harvey for apparently (at this stage) no better reason than they “think” Mr Lyon is a better prospect. They’d want to get it right because there will be plenty watching for them (Freo/Lyon) to get hit by the Karma bus.
Crio – where’s the racing preview? Sounds like we all need a distraction!
Budge, he hasn’t sent one in yet.
Can’t tell you why. Is he away?
Just spoke to him – arrival is imminent
sent it off about 7.45pm
I hope the Mark Neeld rumour for the Dees holds.
I am scared of having Harvey, Schwab and Connelly back together again at a new club.
Perhaps Harvey to the Bulldogs?
Or, a very well paid Assistant job at the Bombers.
Shaken,
Given that Freo has followed the Essendon example of duplicity, it would be just the sick sort of joke loved by the gods, should Mark Harvey be offered an assistant coaching job at his old club.
Essendon, in an act of abundant hypocrisy, would welcome him ‘home’ with open arms.
I wonder if Crazy Eyes has it in him to kill a man.
Mark, are you a fictional character?
Neeld. Wore number 22 for the Cats. Coached the Grubbers to 4 straight flags. He’ll go further than Rossy. Wait and see.
Ross bring the sache’ swish walk to freo and now having to wear purple! All thats missing is a tutu, should we be worried? And will the schoolgirl move to freo? Hmmmm -.-
There is a sanctimonious thread that runs through this discussion. While you castigate Ross Lyon, bear in mind that just last year Mark Thomsom berated Ablett all year about belonging (read loyalty) to the Cats and then without a public discussion left the Cats himself. (Yes I know, there were extenuating circumstances, yawn). Shit happens, often, I mean, mostly at the end of the season. (By the way, I’m not trying to minimise what happened. I’m trying to create/suggest a context).
There are more interesting threads to this story. For example, considering how big the footy media is in this country how come there wasn’t one (even one) investigative journalist happened upon this story? What’s that you say? There are no investigative sports journalists employed? Oh, deary me.
Too true Rick, re: Thompson. Dog act to end all dog acts. To quote(-ish) Jason Davenport (good friend and former housemate of Gazza): “Biggest hypocrite in the world”.
Malthouse and Neeld gone from the black and white dynasty, several key players resigned on short term contracts and realistically the depth not as good as purported if closely scrutinised.
The Pies desperately need to win this one. Pressure is now on.
Bucks may now be a little exposed. It may be a bit hard to discipline the boys he played with and there are a few high maintenance naughty boys there.
Interesting times.
Keep dreaming, Phanto.
Watters to Freo.
One man’s dream is another man’s nightmare Dave.
What i find really intriguing in this broohaha is the polarised views about Ross Lyon’s coaching ability. Last Saturday night I went to the footy with a St Kilda supporter who was adamant that Lyon is the best coach in the league. His reasoning was that he’d got extraordinary results out of a pretty average playing group.
Yet judging from the reactions of plenty of St Kilda and Freo fans, he’s also regarded as a dud. Largely, this seems to be due to the style of play he has drilled into his players. Style v substance – an interesting tangent…what do Geelong supporters take from the Blight era??
As an objective observer, all I can go on is results. Lyon’s association with Sydney and St Kilda has coincided with two flaky “losing culture”clubs with ordinary lists achieving the ultimate success (Sydney) and as near as dammit (St Kilda). With an ounce or two of luck, he could easily be associated with four Premierships. And no-one would be complaining about his coaching or career management methods then.
If he can get the perenially under-achieving Freo somewhere near a Grand Final, surely his reputation will be set in stone.
Oh – he was at Richmond for a while and he got the Tigers….precisely nowhere. Well, I guess no-one’s perfect!
Blight was at a ‘flakey losing’ culture’ club at Geelong but that is no longer the case with the Cats.
They had plenty of chances but something was not right. Hard to point out what, or who, it was but it appears to have been addressed during their current surge.
I remember Peter Matera degrading the Cats in a very arrogant and condescending manner after the Eagles second flag. He was probably right but it was fairly nasty and it hurt.
I hope the Cats remember. I certainly do.
I guess that’s my point. Surely a coach that creates a successful culture at a club is one to prize, irrespective of how the team plays. For all that Blight’s teams played exhilarating footy, no-one at Geelong would rate him above Thompson (or perhaps Scott, in time) as a coach?
Which raises the question.
Is Ross Lyon successful?
One fickle bounce in the first grand final and it would have been a whole new ball game.
Dare I say the world would have been saved.
Stainless and Phantom, the idea that sucess is only measured in premierships is ridiculous. Notwithstanding that being a premiership coach is the ultimate measure of success, coaches such as Blight at Geelong and Lyon at St. Kilda are successful coaches who coached their teams to play finals on a regular basis and reached 3 and 2 grand finals respectively. I am always bemused that people make cheap comments about Collingwood only winning 2 premiersips in the last 50 years, but they have probably played in another 10-12 grand finals – this is a much better record than a lot of other clubs.
The best Geelong coach of the last 50 years is Mark Thompson and he is the equal with Reg Hickey as our best ever coach. I also believe that the way our Geelong players have played this year is attributable to Thompson’s coaching. It is a bit early to judge Chris Scott as a coach. Geelong may be kicking long a bit more and not overusing the ball as much plus playing a bit of zone footy and making more interchange rotations, but these changes were probably going to happen irrespective of the coach. I think Chris Scott’s significant contribution has been the management of player fitness and game time. I think last year player fitness may have been an issue – our high performance manager, Dean Robinson, left in July to join Gold Coast (it is ironical that he is now at Essendon with Mark Thompson and Brendan McCartney) and Paul Haines was given the flick at the end of last season.
With respect to successful club cultures, I believe this is dependent on the quality of key people. The two most important are the CEO and the senior coach, but a club needs quality and effective people in the positions of president, captain, recruiting manager, sports medicine doctor, high performance sports science manager and football department manager.
Mark, do you purposely admonish 90-95% of the population in almost every comment you make, or is it just a happy coincidence?
Also you forgot Mascot. If you don’t have a good mascot like Half-Cat, you can forget about finals footy.
Mark, I am bemused by your “I am always bemused…” comment. In fact, I am always bemused by your comments.
Crikey,I wish I’d known all this was going on earlier. Who’s shout is it?
My daughter called me up last night
Shouting “Dad turn on the telly”
Freo have given Mark Harvey the sack
And my legs just turned to jelly
Adapted from ‘Poems for a Princess” Anchor Books 1997
Did anyone watch Footy Classified last night?
I wonder when G. Lyon and the likes will stop saying of Damian Barrett and Hutchy, “that’s why we pay them the big bucks”.
Neither was on top of the Lyon/Freo yarn and were playing catch-up (Damian Barrett’s working the phones right now” was the comment on The Footy Show).
And as for Hutchy’s world view last night – it’s a tragedy if that is worth the big bucks.
Speaking of Footy Classifieds, what about Caro’s Arrow?
Have never had any affinity with Caro, but last night took the cake. If you take her rant as gospel, Lyon makes Hitler, Idi Amin and the rest of their ilk throughout history look like choir boys whilst Jack The Ripper, Charles Manson, and Jeff Dahmer are just boys being boys.
Get a grip Caro. I think someone was a bit dirty that they had egg on their face after last week declaring Ross a lay-down to stay at the Saints.
Also, is it ridiculous that “sucess is only measured in premierships?”
Perhaps not to supporters, but certainly is to Clubs.
If it wasn’t then no coach would ever be sacked, coaches would not be appointed on the basis of whether or not they can take a team to a premiership, there would be no need for 5-year plans, no one would count the years since they last won a premiership, and sponsors would be just as happy sponsoring perennial poor performers as they would a premiership team.