Crio’s Question: one club conundrum

Free-agency is going to impact players, Clubs and supporters.
The “loyalty” card will be played liberally and often cynically.
Don Scott reckons Clubs don’t exist anymore!
St Kilda life member and very nearly Premiership hero, Brendon Goddard, has flown off to Bomberland. But, I suspect, he’ll be recalled as a Saint.
“Dancing” Dougy Hawkins is “Bulldog through and through…” – forget the Fitzroy dalliance.
Bucks is “Collingwood forever” – Bears? What Bears?
And St Nicky? What other jumper…he’s as Moorabbin as the disco.
But David Cloke, Ian Stewart and, of course, Plugger managed to juggle dual identities.
And what about Peter Moore, Gary Dempsey, even Jacko?
It is a complicated emotional attachment that ultimately resolves how a player is remembered.
What decides it?


  1. Great question Crio. My view is that it depends on which club the player himself attaches to. It will be interesting to see which club G Ablett junior identifies with when he retires.

    For example, Dermie identifies with Hawthorn not the Pies, Roos with the Swans not the Lions/Fitzroy, Gareth Andrews with Geelong not Richmond, Doug Wade with Geelong not Richmond. They all made a choice.

    Probably years of service is a factor also.

  2. Sorry – Doug Wade with Geelong not the Roos

  3. The diminutive Damian O’Donnell trained with Collinwood Unders but will be remembered as a Cat legend.

  4. Phanto – the last word of that sentence was superfluous.

  5. Hi, I will always think of Goddard as a Saint, like I think of Luke Ball as a Saint even though he is a premiership player for the Pies.

    We will see what I think if Essendon beat the Saints next year. Then he’ll be a Bomber.


  6. I think of Tuddy as a Pie despite cpt/coach Essendon.
    David Parkin is Hawk, part Blue, no Fitzroy….I suspect shared success consolidates a connection.

  7. To me Shane Woewodein is a Melbourne player, Rhys Shaw is now a Swan, Shane Wakelin a pie, Sav Rocca a pie and a Philadelphia Eagle, Dermott Brereton a 5 time premiership player who played at Collingwood and I think of most of the England cricket team as South Africans and Irishmen.

  8. Is it the club they have the most impact with?

    And if it is, there are players who are exceptions to that rule and achieve greatness at multiple clubs.

  9. Luke,
    Question:- Where do the English cricketers stay when they tour South Africa?

    Answer:- With their parents.

  10. Alan Border totally reinvented himself as a Cane Toad…I recall an icy reception when he first returned to the SCG under a maroon cap, but that seemed to be forgotten as his career extended. He identifies totally with Qld – no greater endorsement than supporting them v the Blues in Origin!

  11. Good point re the England, South African cricketing situation, Phanto. How do we views Sheeds, who played in 3 flags at Punt Road, then coached Essendon 25+ years? Of course Ian Stewart holds a unique place in the pantheon of AFL/VFL players, being the only man to achieve both premierships and Brownlows at two seperate clubs. Will that feat ever be bettered?


  12. David Parkin says that being asked where his loyalty lies between Hawthorn and Carlton is like asking which child he loves more. I suspect both sides see him as their own wholeheartedly.

  13. Mark Doyle says

    This is a nonsense discussion by conservative parochial football supporters. I suspect most of these supporters have had little contact with the geograhical, history and community of any AFL club and most of the comments indicate the heroworship culture of our celebrity society. It is not surprising that blokes such as John Kennedy jnr. and Ray Shaw, who both have a strong connection and support to the Hawthorn and Collingwood football clubs, can distinguish their overiding support for their sons who both play for different clubs. As they say in the classics, ‘Blood is thicker than Water’. I am sure that all players and coaches who change clubs continue to have good relationships with people at the various clubs that they either played or coached. It is also bemusing that the media buffoons often mistakenly label some blokes as reclusive because they do not ‘piss in the pocket’ of the media.

  14. Dave Nadel says

    Coaching is different. Leigh Matthews is a life member at Collingwood and I assume Brisbane but he will always be a Hawk. Barassi’s greatest coaching feats were at Carlton and North but he will always be a Demon. Sheeds is different. He spent 27 years at Essendon an rebuilt it in his own image. I think of him as a Bomber, but I suspect that Richmond supporters my age would think of him as a Tiger.

    Amongst players, I do not think of Woewodin or Dermie as Pies (although I loved the season Dermie spent at Collingwood) Sorry, Yvette I do think of Luke Ball as a Pie – he won a Premiership for us. For the same reason I think of Doug Barwick as a Pie, even though he spent more time at Fitzroy. To be consistent, I accept that Rhys Shaw, Paul Williams and Nick Davis are Swans (although I rather think Rhys will come back to Collingwood after he retires). Jolly is both a Pie and a Swan but probably mostly a footballer for hire. A similar comments could probably be made about Blake Caracella (Bomber and Lion) and Damian Hardwick (Bomber and Power player) I don’t think of the Wakelin twins as St Kilda players – Shane is a Pie and Daryl a Power man, (and not only because he won a Premiership there).

    I’m not sure how you categorise David Cloke. He played at two clubs and gave both of them excellent service – that is why his sons qualified for father and son at two places. Anthony Daniher is in the sme position but he clearly identifies as Essendon. I think of Ian Stewart and Carl Ditterich as St Kilda despite Stewart also winning a Brownlow and a flag at Richmond and Carl playing a lot of games at Melbourne. I think of Geoff Raines as a mercenary and Richmond are welcome to him.

  15. of course it is nonsense Mark – no one pretends it really matters. It is just interesting perception.
    I think of Hooksey as a South Australian.

  16. Dear Glen,
    Chris Judd will emulate Ian Stewart in 2013.
    Yours impartially,
    MMalthouse, ARobb, JButler and Litza

  17. Imagine if John and Daff had run the Almanac idea past Mark Doyle back in 2007.

    “You wanna do what? Sounds like bullshit to me. Why don’t you go and do something useful you Northcote wankers.”

    John would now be a Miles Franklin winner and Daff would be an ex-coach of Richmond and considering an offer from Port Adelaide.

  18. Shannon Byrnes will always be a Cat.

  19. Skip of Skipton says

    Bernie Quinlan is the only person to have played 150 games at two clubs. Is he a Dog and a Roy, or just a Roy?

  20. Quinlan, defender, as a ‘Scray.
    “Superboot” for the Maroons.

  21. cowshedend says

    Sorry Crio, but Quinlan would have played most his time at the Dogs at CHF, also spent a bit of time in the middle(big centreman hey?)
    Also i regard Bruce Reid as A Dogs player, 86 absolute rubbish games! Now can we have his 2 sons under the “Nearly played 100 crap games,father/son” rule?

  22. Trevor Blainey says

    Skip, i think Roger Merrett did that too.

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